Cost Vs. Value: Investing In Your Roof - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Will Boyd of Renewal Roofing and Wendy Bruch of DaVinci Roofscapes. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to the Ask a Roofer podcast where all your roofing questions find their answers. Your hosts, Megan Ellsworth and Lauren White. Peel back the layers of the roofing world to reveal the knowledge, tips and FAQs you've been curious about. From shingles to skylights, metal to asphalt, we are here to demystify the system above your head. So get ready to ask, learn and explore the fascinating world of roofing one question at a time on the Ask a Roofer podcast.

My name's Megan Ellsworth.

Lauren: And I'm Lauren White.

Megan: And this is the Ask a Roofer podcast. Welcome back. Lauren, I'm excited. We have our friends here.

Lauren: I know. So fun.

Megan: Today we are talking with Wendy from DaVinci Roofscapes and Will from Renewal Roofing. We're going to be talking about cost versus value. Investing in your roof is a big deal. So what do you want to think about when you're going into such a big purchase? So hello friends, let's start with introductions. Will, can you introduce yourself?

Will: Hey guys. I'm Will Boyd, owner of Renewal Roofing in Atlanta, Georgia. We work kind of all over the southeast and do primarily what's considered specialty trade roofing and DaVinci is a large part of that.

Megan: Wendy.

Wendy Bruch: I'm with DaVinci Roofscapes. I've been leading the marketing for over 15 years here and just seeing our composite market and roofing in general have a lot of shifts. Excited to answer these questions for people.

Megan: Yeah, absolutely.

Lauren: Excellent. Let's dive in. Wendy, with all of your experience at DaVinci Roofscapes, how has the roofing industry evolved during your time in marketing? And two-parter, how has DaVinci contributed to those changes?

Wendy Bruch: I think the biggest change I've seen is building codes and the changes the ever-changing extreme weather effects and how we have to adapt to that and the more rigorous codes that come into place. Whether it's for wind, fire, hail and how all of our products have to adapt to the changing conditions and improve.

Megan: Absolutely. Will, going off of that, there's lots of storms right now and I'm sure building codes are going to change again after all these hurricanes. How often do you see homeowners replace their roofs with the same thing that just flew off the roof, maybe asphalt shingles? How do you educate your homeowners getting new roofs to invest in something a little more high grade like composite roofing?

Will: It's interesting. I'm actually talking to you guys. I had to come off the mountains of North Carolina down to Clayton, Georgia down in the valley where I could get good signals just to talk to you guys today. Here's what I would tell you, I've been in roofing for 20 years and I actually came up through the storm work. 90 some odd percent of all steep slope roofs are shingles and there's thin asphalt, you can rip them apart with your hands. A lot of times you guys, a roof gets a little bit older, they're easier to impact, they're just more susceptible to damages from wind, hail, just age and condition in general. What's interesting is, we just had hurricane, is it Helene? Am I saying that correctly?

Megan: Yep.

Will: There were areas that we've installed roofs that got 18 to 20 plus inches of rain plus high winds, we didn't have a single project impacted. Stuff from the coast that we've done all the way through Georgia up into the North Georgia Mountains. What we do as normal is really what's considered specialty trade roofing, so slate, cedar, tile and then we're actually the largest synthetic installer in the state of Georgia. All these products withstand storm damages, high wind. We'll get into that in a little bit in this interview where there's ways of installing things on the coast or in high wind uplift areas like in the mountains that guard you from storms where you're not having to replace the roof if you're on one of those outlying areas of these bad storms.

Megan: Totally. Really quick follow up question. For those listeners out there that are like, "What's composite roofing? I have no idea." Can you give us maybe the ABCs, what is composite roofing?

Will: Okay. For a homeowner, the easiest way to say composite, synthetic, is it is mimicking or imitating organic slate and shake. When you see an organic cedar shake, we all know what that looks like, we know how it cups curls and fades. A composite, or what it really is, it's a fancy plastic, but it's polymer based. It's a product designed to mimic real slate or real cedar, we can go into the benefits later, but they last forever versus needing maintenance like a real cedar roof.

Megan: That's awesome.

Wendy Bruch: Yeah. Megan, one of the things that we've seen talking back to Will's storm repair and just wanting a natural shake roof, is talking about this cost versus value that we're getting into and where people make that investment. One of those changes that I've seen over the years, people are more willing to make that investment because they've had to replace their roof multiple times in maybe 15 years of owning a home. They really are ready to make that investment and have the curb appeal that they want, so they're able to enjoy being in their house. They're able to enjoy the exterior and the curb appeal that they set without having to redo that again in 10 years because the product didn't last because of extreme weather.

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. So let's continue on that train of thought with, when you are talking to homeowners about investing in composite roofing, what is that return on investment for them? Are there other financial benefits that you highlight besides the immediate cost recovery?

Will: I would answer that from, my perspective of being a specialty trade only roofer, we don't do a lot of shingle work anymore, so we're already kind of playing in a little bit different spot. I do a lot of organic slate and then I do a ton of synthetic slate. The thing about a synthetic slate is, you can walk on it for maintenance, the guys can get up and clean windows on it without breaking slate. People think that a real slate roof lasts forever, we're actually dealing with projects where we're having to take organic slate off and do what's called reclaiming it. So replacing the bad wood, [inaudible 00:07:44] it in, reinstalling that, you're never going to have that with a synthetic slate roof. Then I would give you an example of a cedar shake roof. Up in the mountains of North Carolina we're taking off a lot of organic shake. They don't last as long as people would think, especially for how much it costs.

There's a governing body of cedar and the way that you're supposed to go about maintaining those things. The great thing with a synthetic composite shake system, this is a system that's designed to look like Cedar Shake, they're maintenance free, you can install it at the coast with high winds, we have to do a different installation style in the mountains where the wind is just beating it all the time. Then you get all the benefits of its fire resistant, it's mold, termite, insect resistant and it's virtually maintenance free. They're getting all the bang for the buck. It's a little bit cheaper than real shake, but then instead of it only lasting 15, 20 years, these are systems that could last a hundred years or more. If you're choosing something like DaVinci, it's all raw virgin material. It's not going to cut, fade and become brittle over time. I've said it in our last podcast, it's like buying a new car that can't get a scratch or a dent and that's really what you're looking for.

Wendy Bruch: Can I add on to that just a little bit?

Megan: Yes.

Wendy Bruch: Because Will, you touched on it, but there's this thing that we love to think about on the DaVinci team, where we're giving somebody an investment for a lifetime. We're giving them a roof that they're just not going to have to bother with for the rest of the time that they own that home. Even when they go to sell the home, if it should then help with that resell value and thinking about somebody else coming into that home looking at less maintenance for that roof. There's always things like there's the insurance discounts because of the different classifications that these products have for fire ratings, for wind ratings impact that help achieve that lower cost and that investment.

Megan: Yeah, that's so nice. It's cool too, that this composite roofing really works in so many different areas in the country too. You said Will, the coast with all the hurricanes, you're not going to get that uplift. In the mountains there's fire resistance, so you don't have to worry about wildfires if you live in Oregon like Lauren or Colorado like me and that is so cool that it's multipurpose and multi-regional, it's not going to work just for the coast or just one area.

They did a impact report, a remodeling impact report in 2022 sponsored by the National Association of the Remodeling Industry and the National Association of Realtors. There was a lot of enlightening information. It showed that roofing was one of the top two projects with a hundred percent cost recovery. Love that. Why do you think, maybe Wendy you can answer first, why do you think roofing is such a sound investment for homeowners?

Wendy Bruch: Securing your house from the top down, one. You're kind of giving it that crown to add to the curb appeal that helps with even what they called in the study, that joy factor. It's just helping people be more secure in their homes. They're not dealing with just those added upgrades and added replacements once they make that change, and they're looking for those long-lasting results in these materials.

Megan: Do you have anything to add on why roofing is such a sound investment for homeowners?

Will: Yeah, a hundred percent. One thing that I've seen is, home values are increasing, right?

Megan: Right.

Will: I'm not looking at statistics like you guys are, but I'm constantly surrounded by high-end home sales and values. We work on streets and fancy neighborhoods where the houses with a specialty trade roof where they composite shake or slate, those homes sell more quickly and they sell for a higher cost than the house next door to it. It's a comparable sale. We've got builders now in Atlanta that are only using composite slate and shake products on their new construction homes because the roof's going to last the entirety of the home, especially a lifetime and it's bringing a higher premium for that house versus the one literally next door with a shingle roof.

Lauren: I love the idea of the roof being the crown on your home.

Megan: Me too.

Will: It's hundred percent correct y'all. It really is.

Wendy Bruch: I've been doing this for a little bit, huh.

Will: I love it.

Lauren: So maybe Will, let's start with you on this next question. In your opinion, what key factors make homeowners prioritize those durable materials like composites when considering a new roof?

Will: Honestly, it's kind of simple. Shingle roof systems now, I've been in roofing for 20 years, they do not last as long as they used to. Maybe it's a little cliche to say, but it's really that wow factor. As homes go up in value, as people are spending more on homes than they ever have before and they're bigger, really and truly, if you're building a home, if you see it with shingles on it and then you see it with a synthetic slate or shake, y'all, they're not even comparable. The roofs with a composite roof on it, it is far more beautiful. I can give people plenty of examples, but they look far better, but they last forever. If you do your due diligence and you pick one that's properly made, that doesn't have recyclables and all the things in it, these things last forever but they look phenomenal. They dress up the house so much. That's really what's driving it, is look and performance.

Wendy Bruch: Not only just not the performance piece, but also that look. With products like DaVinci and composites, you're able to retain that color, so the color you want is the color you keep. You're not going to start with this fresh cedar look and have then gray shingles at the end. We have different products that mimic where you are in the country. So if it's in the mountains, it's more mountain type, how that environment affects those shingles and that's the color that's going to stay on your roof. If you're somewhere that is going to take on more moisture in the shingles where they get moldy and a little black, but you don't want mold on your roof, but you like that look, you can get that with these products and that's how it's going to stay. Even with the slate, it can stay that bright, vibrant purples and greens that you want or it's those muted grays, whichever you prefer to go with your home and keep that aesthetic and that curb appeal is what you get with these products.

Megan: I honestly love that you brought up the mold, because that is true. I feel like maybe some people don't come right out and say, "I want my roof to look like it has mold on it," but maybe that they like the greens or the darker tones mixed in with the greens so it does look a little moldy. You never know.

Wendy Bruch: Yeah.

Will: DaVinci makes-

Wendy Bruch: It gives it the charm that you want. You are making that investment, so give your house, give your roof that look that you want when you're making this investment in your home. That's that joy too because you're getting what you want.

Megan: Okay, so going back to the study. 61% of homeowners see durability as the most important aspect of a new roof. We knew this. We all want a roof that's going to stay on, do its job and keep our loved ones and our treasures safe and dry. But could you elaborate a little bit on, say for example with the houses you [inaudible 00:16:41] on in the Helene area, Will, can you kind of show us a little bit how DaVinci's materials align with these properties of safety and durability and how all those projects in the North Carolina mountains you said all still have a very intact roof. Can you kind of go into detail on that?

Will: When you talk about durability, you are literally talking about impact resistancy. So DaVinci products are a class four rated impact resistancy, so you're talking about hail tree limbs falling down. The big thing in the mountains that we're hearing a lot about is fire resistancy, so a lot of times people's homeowners insurance are no longer covering organic cedar products and they will even suggest using synthetic products. We're out there installing roofs that are holding up class A fire rating, class four impact resistant rating. Then you have a product that's going to look the exact same, the entirety, it will not fade. They have a crazy color palette too. You'd be amazed at some of the colors that they create. They're holding up the test of time,

Megan: Especially with the growing intensity of all these storms, it's so scary. You never know when your neighborhood's going to be next really. So knowing that your roof has that impact durability and it's going to keep your house safe, it totally would help me sleep better at night.

Will: Really a big thing that people, to not get too technical to the people that might be listening, is the wind rating on these systems. I could go on all day about it, but there's ways of installing these products where the exposure is shrunken, I think is dramatically correct, more fasteners. So what happens in those high wind uplift areas, they're more resistant to that 100, 110 or even greater wind impact rating. These storms that come through, where it may be super intense in one area and we're a little bit more worried structurally, the things in the periphery that are getting hit with, the hail storms, the high winds and the crazy rain, well they're not impacted at all.

The proof was in the pudding in this last storm, and we have one coming right now, but some of these places saw 18 inches of rain. We didn't have a single callback. Anybody that's listening, our system starts with the under laminate, how it's dried in, that's important and then how it's flashed, that's super important. The big part that what you see, the system itself, that, do your due diligence. Pick the right one, look at the things that matter. Is it fire rated? Is it mold and algae resistant? Is it impact rated? Miami day, that's the biggest, the stamp that you're looking for and DaVinci meets and exceeds all those requirements.

Lauren: I think it's important, like you were just touching on, to know your region. What weather impacts your region, and look for those factors to make sure that your roof is covered and your home stays protected no matter what comes its way, because you never know.

Will: Exactly right.

Lauren: Okay, so there's been a term that we've thrown around a couple of times in this podcast called the Joy Factor. The Joy factor score for roofing projects was a 9.2. Can you share some feedback you've heard from homeowners after completing a roofing project about what this Joy Factor is and what that means?

Will: I guess that question's to me. Unfortunately I have a hundred different ways to answer this, so I got to be concise. Again, home values are going up, so people are buying homes that are triple, quadruple in value, they're renovating. I hate to say it, but you take the big white farmhouse that's got the old shingle roof on it, it's beautiful with old shingles, it really is. You put a synthetic slate roof on it and y'all can go to my Instagram page and find several, the wow factor is there. It goes from beautiful to stunning. It's just not even in question.

Then I can also give you new construction impact. We put roofs on some really cool houses. All houses look the same when they're during construction, it's a big brown box, they dry it in, they do some vertical wall stuff, again, technical, but then it's time to put the roof on. You put the roof on and the house isn't even done, it doesn't have windows, it's not painted, the features aren't there, it already looks good. We get the wow factor early on in new construction. But then in re-roofing with this stuff, it's already there. Y'all have done a write-up, I think DaVinci's done a write-up of us taking off old cedar and then putting on a new DaVinci shake. The wow factor there again, because cedar, it does not age gracefully, we all know that.

We get to see immediate results throughout these projects. The wow factor, proofs in the pudding. Then it's done and then it looks like that forever. It is the most satisfying part of getting to turn these projects over to homeowners and that they, again, go back to everything that you've already hit on, all the benefits that we've spoken about, but then they get that stunning roof and they get to drive up to it. We still get people that send us pictures with Christmas decorations or Halloween decorations and they look at roofs more now than just the fronts of houses. You put a fancy roof on a house and it totally dresses it up. It takes an eight to a 10 every single time.

Wendy Bruch: Yeah, it's back to putting that crown on top. Just finishing off that curb appeal. There's a thing about giving a front door a fresh coat of paint or some neutron color, but when you're able to replace the roof and do it with something like a composite slater or shake, it really takes that project to the next level and it does a complete transformation.

Megan: Yeah, absolutely. That is the joy factor as well. You're not only getting this, "Wow, oh my god." But that in turn, having that big reaction is the joy factor and having such a smooth process also of picking the product you want to use, getting the right contractor. There can definitely be a lot of headaches, so having the roofing product not be one of those headaches, is so nice and that adds to the joy factor as well.

Going off of that, it is a big choice deciding what contractor you're going to go with and it's important. You want to go with a really vetted, educated, sourced contractor. What should homeowners look for when selecting a contractor to install their roof, especially if it's a composite roof, what should people look for?

Will: I guess that question is to me also. Proof is in the pudding. When you're doing your due diligence on what material to install, you need to be doing the same thing with the installer. Especially trade roofing, which is what this falls underneath, that's a small percentage of the overall population of roofers. Look for somebody who can talk the talk and walk the walk. They have photos, they have references, they have homes they can take you to. Even a good shingle roofer, that's not necessarily somebody that you need to be the Guinea pig to. Unfortunately this happens often. The flashing systems for these roofs are different, how we make valleys, how we make drip aprons, all these things are different, so you really need to talk to somebody who has done it a lot and you don't want to be the person that is their Guinea pig.

Get multiple quotes. If somebody's too inexpensive or too expensive, that will tell you a lot right there. The other thing that I always tell people is, find somebody you want to work with. Find somebody that you can meet them, look them in the eye, shake their hand, talk to other people that have done the exact same thing with them. A roof is a very expensive thing. Nobody can afford to do it twice. Nobody wants to do it twice. Unfortunately, we've run into those scenarios where somebody was a little bit in an area they shouldn't have been and it really wound up hurting people. Nobody's perfect, we're not trying to throw shade on anybody, but if you're making that investment, absolutely do the due diligence.

Some of the horror stories we've heard is, "Well, this guy said he could do X," so just make sure they've got a proven track record and that they've worked with that specific type of product. Somebody like us, with a big specialty trade background from all the types of roofing, that's who you're looking for. Somebody that's going to know the fastening patterns, the alignments, just the manufacturer's spec for each individual system. That is the most important thing. Just do your homework.

Megan: Absolutely.

Wendy Bruch: All roofing products are not the same. How they're installed isn't the same, the underlayment, the infrastructure that goes into the system isn't the same. So yes, so important that you're working with somebody who understands the whole roofing system and not just the product.

Megan: Absolutely.

Will: To add to that, I always find myself being a filter. I don't ever sell anything. Somebody has a need, I want to be the very best installer. What Wendy's alluding to is, the material that you dry in the deck with, that is just as important as the system. How the flashings are done with the general contractor or in re-roofing it, through all flashing, soldered copper, all these technical issues, all of that matters just as important as the product that you pick. Just make sure they've got a proven track record is the most important thing.

Wendy Bruch: So for DaVinci, it's important for us to be partners with contractors like Will. So that when a homeowner comes to us, we have partners like Will who are going to give the homeowner the kind of service that they deserve when investing in a roof like this.

Megan: That's such a good point, Wendy. You actually beat me to it, I was going to bring it up too. It's so important too, maybe people need to start looking at their re-roof in a different way instead of like, "Oh, my roof is damaged. I need a new roof. I'm just going to call the closest contractor to me and see what they can do." Maybe you need to look, "Okay, well what do I want for my new roof? Do I want metal? Do I want composite? Do I want just asphalt again? What do I want?" Then go from there and find that trusted manufacturer and they can put you in contact with one of their trusted installers and you know you're going to get the best bang for your buck.

Wendy Bruch: That is one thing that I have not seen change since I've been with DaVinci and a high-end Roofing product, is when you're making this level of investments at this cost, homeowners, they're doing the leg work. They're starting on Google and they're doing all of their research and seeing all of their options.

Megan: Love it.

Wendy Bruch: Maybe at some point they'll pull in a contractor, but a lot of times they kind of go in knowing what they want, if it's going to be composite, if it's going to be metal or concrete, but they have this idea of the look that they want and what all of the qualifications that they want the product to meet. It's been like that, and that's where we've been on our side as the manufacturer, finding partners like Will to refer these homeowners to.

Megan: Yeah, I love it.

Lauren: Such good information. Is anything else that you think could help homeowners make these informed decisions for such a long-term investment like their roof, that crown on top of their home, anything else we haven't covered yet?

Wendy Bruch: Once you do all this, you can get into the fun piece of it, of choosing your color. Then there's all of these resources out there. With DaVinci, we provide homeowners with tools and eBooks of how to select a product to go with either the stone features or the brick features on their homes that aren't going to change. Or how to look at the color from the top down so you're creating a cohesive look. So that's that little final step that homeowners get to take in making that selection and making their charmed house come to life.

Will: I can weigh in on that a little bit. For our new construction side, we deal with famous designers and architects and engineers and general contractors and do page flips and get into the technical. On the homeowner side, Wendy knocked it out of the park. Because if it's a re-roof, they kind of know what they want and we're just a filter. We're getting them to that exciting part. They know the technical things that we've covered that they need, and then you're giving them that color and then you're telling them best processes. What's involved in the cedar tear off? It's a nightmare, just that you guys can know. It's like picking up 1,000,001 toothpicks. But walking somebody through, what are the dangers? What are you looking at? The person that you selected, have they torn off real slate before or tile?

Having somebody walk you through the process start to end so that you know the things to look out for, I think that's just as crucial. That's what, at the end, when the tear off has been good and your Japanese maple and your slate walkway was protected and it doesn't look like anybody was there and then you have this insanely beautiful new roof, that's what you're looking for as a homeowner. That's what we strive to give. I hope that anybody listening, they try and find their roofer that cares and gives that level of quality and care that they're looking for. Because these are once in a lifetime projects and that's what we approach our stuff with every single day, is it's an honor to be a part of it.

Lauren: Love that.

Megan: I love that attitude. Well, I was just going to mention, we have done a couple episodes with the DaVinci Color Analyst and it's so fun. Please go listen to that episode as well and learn all about color and how to pick the right colors for your home and how important that is, like you said, Wendy, for Curb appeal and a great episode. Thank you both so much.

Wendy Bruch: Thank you.

Lauren: Thanks.

Will: Thanks. It's an honor to be back.

Megan: Yay. We're so glad to have you and you are invited back, Will.

Lauren: Love it.

Megan: Everyone go to askaroofer.com to learn more. You can find all of the DaVinci resources on there. You can also go to rooferscoffeeshop.com to the DaVinci directory to learn more. This has been amazing, Lauren.

Lauren: Great. I know so much great information. Thank you again.

Outro: Yes, thank you both. And we will see you all listeners out there next time on the Ask a Roofer podcast.

If your roof needs answers, subscribe now to the Ask a Roofer podcast. We've got your questions covered. One episode at a time. Go to askaroofer.com to submit your questions and learn more. Stay tuned and keep those questions coming.